Of course, some libertarians may buy into gay marriage rights. This is a false sense of liberty. There is always the balancing act between individual freedoms and the protection of society as a whole. If gays want to bugger behind close doors, out of sight of our children, hence doing lesser harm to society, then government banging down doors to prevent sodomy may be to intrusive, in the balance. However, when it comes to the AIDS epidemic, the justification for strict sodomy laws becomes clear, in the balance. So, where individual freedoms are restricted by law, there must be clear dangers to society for justification.
The restrictions of gay marriages or gay street parades forms of expression, should be viewed in the balancing acts. The family unit, the core strength of any society, is under assault. Do we really want to teach our children that homosexual relationships are so sacred that we must enact laws to resurrect from nowhere, gay marriages and encourage a return to the days of Sodom and Gomorra? The control of marriage by the states, and the voters, is key in maintaining the core family unit, the backbone of any strong society. The voters will speak. Most agree, that if you destroy traditional marriage, as now occurring, then you open the door to even more, debilitation social behavior, and also aid the destruction of the moral fiber of our or any society, over the long run. We have elicite fornication spreading descease. We have drug epidemics. We have irresponsible citiznes, abandoning children, increasingly born out of wedlock. We have drug induced gay dance club orgies spreading drugs and desease and decadent behaviour. The voters recognize these truths. By effectively destroying marriage, and its responsibility, we would then have a society teaching our children irresponsible behavior as the norm, with no anchor or orientation upon which to struggle for societal strength. Gay marriages are inherently decadent and destructive of societal strenght. Restriction of gay marriages is a proper balance between freedom and danger, that does not restrict liberty, in the balance. Libertarian support of gay marriages is misguided, as such, one should not have the liberty to murder, nor should a class of citizens have the liberty to kill marriage, as we all know it, leading to the moral degradation and death of society and social order.
The states have traditionally controlled marriage laws. In the end, we must let the state voters decide the local issues of marriage. If the voters approve gay marriage, then so be it, and they will live with the consequences of that vote, and on every street corner, in their state, and if gay marriage is banned, then so be it, as a voter recognized balance between right to control marital status and the harm of any change to that status. So, liberty and freedom has traditionally been balanced by the states re marriage. Libertarians who seek to open up marriage laws to gays, do not believe in liberty as envisioned by our founding fathers, and do not respect states' right, but rather, seek liberty at all costs, and that cost can be to expensive. Liberty does has some bound, the question being, where is the proper bound of liberties. By and large, the bounds are found within the states themselves, under states' rights, and should not be dictated by federal elitists in DC under centralized totalitarian controls.
Government does not have a vested interest in securing marriage rights of gays who do not procreate the generation of tax paying citizens, and hence, there is no reason for the federal government to dictate to states what should be their marriage laws. On this basis, a constitutional amendment may be rejected by the voters. But if approved by the voters, it should become the absolute law of the land, as nothing more that an obvious statement of founding beliefs in the family unit. States rights control local marriage laws. Laws enacted by voters to restrict marriage to traditional definitions, to limit the dangers of social corruption, and to limit state funding and protection of perceived decadent debilitating behavior, are sufficient dangers, to justify maintenance of gay marriage bans, in the balance, by the states, and are well supported by our traditional values and founding father sense of liberties. In my view, there is simply no legitimate need, in the balance, for gay marriages, that freedom of contract would not otherwise generally provide to protect agreements between consenting adults. If two gay boys want to share an apartment and its expenses, under an enforceable contract, who am I to object to that. But, they do not have the freedom, nor should they have the right to state support of their decadent relationship. Hence, freedom is not absolute, but we must be on guard to always limit unnecessary invasions of our freedoms. Hence, there is no duplicity in defining traditional marriages, limiting gay marraige rights, yet, seeking also are traditional freedoms and liberties from our totalitarian government.
Gay marriages are not inherent human rights, deserving special protection.
On the contrary, homosexual behaviour has been regarded, over the long haul, as destructive, and states' right restriction OF MARRIAGE, has been the law of man, from time immorial, under man cultural evolution. Has there ever been a society, through all of man kind, that has specifically authorized gay marriage rights? I dont think so, but modernly, where state totalitarian elitists choose to decide for the people what is best, it is suspect do to the evil social engineering objectives and enslavement of us. The government wants to enslave all, to maintain order suppressing our individualism, and to the extent government can hook up the gay-boys, under marriage laws, for more CONTROL OVER THEM, MORE POWER TO THE DC ELITISTS. Its all about control. Do these gays really want to have the government in their faces deciding personal issues under marriage law between them and their respective rights? That is one serious question to ask them. Its about making us all absolutely equal, contrary to our individualism, and our genenic sex, or our age, or our race, or anyother thing else that makes us the individuals we are. If we treat and educate all boys and girls, as if they were ITS, then more power to the government, and less to our freedoms under our enslaving totalitarianism. The gay marriage push is also part of TOTALITARIAN CONTROL, by the government, to get even the gays, under the thumb of marriage laws, and hence, governmental control.
I do have a couple of gay friends, here in gay town, laguna beach california. They however, dont push it off onto others, they dont hit on me, they dont parade, they dont target children, they are like the log cabin boys, who want low taxes and sound budgets. While I dont approve of their life style, I respect them for respecting me, marriage, and society as whole. They certainly dont want marital expectations in their lives, the responsiblity of that, and certainly dont want government in their faces, affecting and controlling their gay relations, with marriage laws. There are some gays out there who really do respect my rights, and our national traditions, and do understand that the need to preserve the CORE STRENGTH of any society.
And when these gays finally realize they would be subject to common-law partner support, six month resident requirement to file separation law suits, six month madatory reconcialation periods especially if pets are involved, court order partner support payments, poodle dependent living support payments, alternating weekend poodle vistation rights subject to court mediated pyschriatic care and couseling and poodle abuse monitoring, court fees, attorney fees, their partner's attorney fees, for merely shacking up together for a few quickies, in between serious flames, but now with midnight shower agreement litigation at comedy court, they will be marching in the streets in droves, to repeal the california gay marriage laws, so they can have the sought after free life style and same sex affairs at the nearest gay bar. I can just see it. What a riot it would be in downtown san fransico, the rainbows hair dos marching in loud screeches, REPEAL GAY MARRIAGE LAWS NOW!!!!!, totalitarian enslavement of gay rights!!!, ACTing up all other the nation. Trust me on that one!!!! They would regret what they wished for. On the freaking floor!!!
But, the gay marriage push, is, in my view, really nothing more, than the elitist government's push to control more and more of our lives, including gays operating outside of the marriage laws. My gay friends, are stand up citizens, even if walking on the wild side behind closed doors. I respect them, for it, because they respect me, my rights, our traditional marriages, and our society.
I submit that the gay marriage issue, is not really a gay issue,
BUT A GOVERNMENTAL TOTALITARIAN CONTROL ISSUE.
I submit that there are sufficient detrimental affects from gay life styles, that protection of traditional marriage is a suitable balance between rights of the few and the harm to the many and to the core of society.
I submit that a constitutional ban on gay marriages is consistent with our heritage and transistional values and is implicite in our constitutions.
I submit that states' right should be respected re marriage laws as voted by the voters, and that the reversal by the courts is judicial fiat, absurd, perposterous, mere judicial legislation, a breach of trust of the people, a violation of oaths to up hold the contstitutions, a crime perpetrated by supreme court judges, a failure to uphold the rule of law, a failure to respect voted mandated laws, and an elitist judiciary power play over the people. Simply put, the judges are CRIMINALS, in my view, and should all be impeached.
I submit that libertarian views of gay marriage is not liberty for gays, but to the contrary, is an imposition of marital laws over and enslavement of gay relationships.
I submit that gays really do not want marriage laws and the responsibilities imposed thereby.
I submit that gay marriages are unnecessary and can be resolved by simple freedom of contract.
I submit that the gay marriage push, is a totalitarian push by the DC elitists trying to control every aspect of our lives, including gay life styles now outside the scope of traditional marriage laws and the power of the courts.
=============
So lets step back and look at what is happening. If an interpretation is needed, because the constitution is silent, it is intrepeted consistent with decadence. Aint that special? The constitution is contrued based upon political pressure to divorce ourselves from our heritage and traditional values.
Trust me on this, the framers of the US and states constitutions, did not possibly consider that decadent rump-ranging relationships would be considered marriage. It would have been just to perposterous at the time, yet despite that, its now the law. Aint that special?
I dont care what the fags do be behind closed doors or in private dance clubs, but when they do it in the streets, and are publicly sanctioned by legislating judges, affecting the education and moral upbringing of our childern, then, I hold the line, and oppose such liberalization.
State approved and protected sick immoral decadence destorying family institutions and values is now the law of the land. Aint that special?
This all of course is a continuation of the destruction of America's heritage, traditions, culture, and morality, along the lines of OReilly's recognition of the political push behind it, and that is, the no-fault no-rules no-standard culture driven by the SP PC crowd. When will it end? Never will completely, but I bet, if we get an economic collapse mostly from the use of fiat money, many out there in la-la land, will start doing some soul searching, leading to a revival in God and good moral conduct and capitalism.
Just like honest real money gold leads to freedom and democratic capitialism, moral family structures of the husband-wife-children leads to increase happiness and sound citizens, and with both, increased productivity and less enslaving socialistic corruption. Is it curious how real honest money and moral family values go hand in hand to strengthen the productivity and overall well being of a society?
Our founding fathers, with religious freedom, sound money, limited government, and inalienable rights knew what was up, but we took the devils fork in the road, in 1913, which started the down hill slide, into the gutter of decadent AMERICA, the land of the enslaved and cowards, and rump-ranging marriages.
Absolutely sick. Yeap, no doubt about it. Its time for another flood, or an equivalent economic collapse, in the land of SoDoMe-SomeMora Socialistic States of America. I completely agree with Woodro Wilson, when after he signed the law, sticking us with private FED reserve bank, its FRN fiat money, its 16 amendment income taxes enabling social engineering and liberization, and its blood sucking interest payments, "I have ruined the country".
Here are the opposing social forces.
Left--------------------Right
=====================================
Socialism---------------Captialism
Homosexuals-------------Heteralsexuals
Fiat money--------------Real Money
Decadences--------------Morality
Gay Marriages-----------Husbands and Wives
Sex Protection----------Procreation
Sex on the Corner-------Premarital Abstenance
Parole------------------Harsh Imprisonment
Pardons-----------------Capital Punishment
Judicial Fiat-----------Strick Construction
Slauthering Unborn------Value of Human life
Totalitarians-----------Freedom from Government
Gun Regulation----------Gun Possession Rights
Surrender---------------Self Defense
Evil--------------------Good
Illegal Immigration-----Legal Immigration
Liberal-----------------Conservative
Smear Merchants---------Balanced Commentators
Government Compassion---Personal Compassion
Absolute Tolerance------Judgments on Conduct
Drug legalization-------Drug Enforcement
Leftist Newpapers-------Rightest Radio Shows
Open Borders------------National Integrity
UN Oversight------------National Sovereignty
Athesists---------------Christians, Jews, Muslims
Government Welfare------Private Charity
Regulations-------------Freedom from government
Political Fascists------Political Free Speech
Government Reliance-----Self Reliant
Wilson/FDR/LBJ/BHO------Founding Fathers
Raw Deals---------------Fair Deals
Corrupt Society---------Productive Society
Bailout Socialists------Darwinian Capitialists
Social Engineering------Market Free Choice
Incentive Taxers--------Fair Taxers
Class Warriors----------Americanism
Land Condemnators-------Property Rights Protectors
Rodent Herd-------------Mountaineers
Self Worship------------Divine Worship
Irresponsible-----------Responsible
Unaccountable-----------Accountable
Tax and Spend-----------Limited Government
Patriotic Taxers--------Tax Revolters
Fiat Money Printing-----Real Coinage Minting
Fortress USA------------Forward Defense
Cut and Run-------------Military Self Defense
Politically Correct-----Politically Accurate
Secular Progressives----Traditionalists
Deceptive Arguments-----Honest Appraisals
Social Pandering--------Hard Choice Decisions
Pacifists---------------Wars Righting Wrongs
Defeat------------------Victory
Wrong-------------------Correct
Unproductive------------Productive
Anticompetitive---------Competitive
Self Demeaning----------Self Assenting
=====================================
I am sure many can add to this list, but its a good start.
So which side are you on?
COME ON LEFTIES, be honest, for once.
Derrick Michael Reid
Laguna Beach CA
===========
I took a test once, on a scale of 1-50, Jessie jackson was a 1 and Regan was 50, and I scored 48, which pretty much tells you where my head is at.
This list above. Go through with a highlighter pen, and for each line, pick one, and you will come up with a ratio, which should give you a good indication of where you are at politically, if HONEST to yourself. I would be all right, of course, and would be deemed so far right, I would be REACTIONARY.
Now, there are 57, so, throw out or skip 7 of your answers, where confused at to the meaning, or deemed inappropriate, so you have 50 answers left/right and 25/25 would be a centrist.
==================
The Iowa supreme court is dead wrong, engaged in judicial fiat, read something that was not there, violtated the people's trust in the judiciary, and defamed and degraded our constitutional rights, our national heritage, in an obscene case of defying the people's will, through judicial legislation, and they should be impeached.
BECAUSE,
It Just Didn’t Happen!!!!
So, in the wake of the Iowa supreme court striking down voter approved laws banning gay marriage, through judicial fiat, lets all reflect on some American History.
Lieutenant General George Washington, did not, I repeat DID NOT, lead his rag-clad continental army across the bitter Delaware River in the snow to fight the homophobe British monarchy to gain independence rights for rump-rangers. It just didn't happen.
Delegate Thomas Jefferson, did not, I repeat DID NOT, write the Declaration of the Independence to secure liberties enabling life styles free to bugger male darkies in southern barns as inalienable rights. It just didn’t happen.
Founding fathers Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Thomas Paine did not, I repeat DID NOT, draft the US Constitution so that gays were guarantee life, liberty and the pursuit of decadent life styles and predation on our children. It just didn’t happen.
Author James Madison did not, I repeat, DID NOT, write the Bill of Rights, so that the gays would have the right to express themselves in open street debauchery and decadent gay parades for all the kids to see. It just didn’t happen.
President Abraham Lincoln did not, I repeat DID NOT, issue the Gay Emancipation Declaration freeing decadent life styles of gays in rebel held territories as a war measure to preserve the union. It just didn’t happen.
President Roosevelt did not, I repeat DID NOT, prosecute war against the nazis so as to liberate gays from concentration camps. It just didn’t happen.
President Regan did not face down the soviets so as to perfect gay rights in soviet Russia. It just didn’t happen.
To suggest that the framers of the US or state Constitutions or our traditions have implicit language or conduct guarantying rights to decadent gay marriages, is an absurdity, is preposterous, and degrades our heritage, and destroys family values. Our national history did not, I repeat DID NOT, seek to provide protection for decadent life styles in the form of gay marriages. It just didn’t happen.
Derrick Michael Reid
Laguna Beach CA USA
============
If our totalitarian government, including the fiat judiciary in imposing gay marriages, the treasonous executives on the open southern border, and the enslaving congress with totalitarian controlling tax incentives and welfare indignity, do not start respecting the people's will, american traditions, american freedoms, american heritage, american values, real honest money, balanced budgets, and the US and State constitutions, and do not stop their totalitarian enslaving ways, anarchy and revolt will necessarily follow. If the economy collapses based upon fiat money use, anarchy and revolt will necessarily follow. Totalitarianism has its consequences, and it dont look good, my friends. Armored tanks may be positioned on Pico and Figerora in LA, with signs, turn left or GET SHOT, remenisant of Watts in 1964, but this time, it will be the a rainbow coalition of 50 million in revolt.
Heck yeah, 8 states are already in official rebellion to the fiat money DC elitist printing presses in DC.
How did we get to this situation? It all started in the year of infamy, 1913, and the creation of the FED bank. In totalitarian china, they had their enslaving gang of four, and we have had our totalitarian gang of four, Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and BHO, bringing anarchy, rebellion and revolt to a street corner near you.
==========
Now lets do an experiment. Take 100 boys from the local highschool and put them in a teetee bar with a couple of poles and seductive music, and bring out a couple of really hot big breasted girls, naked of course, and let them dance together, just going off at the poles, or any other falic instrumentality at hand, and let go off big time, with all them big eyed boys right at ring side, up close and real personal like, like in your face. Let the girls just go off together. At the end of about 1 hours, check each boy and see which ones have errections, indicating their heads are wired correctly. Now, fast forward 10 years, and get them back, and do a repeat, and compare statistics. Those who are now purportedly gay and who do not get excited, have changed. Their wired brains did not change, however. What happend, is that, they LEARNED the gay culture. They learned through social conditioning to be gay. Being gay is not genetic at all. Any suggestion that homosexuality is hard-wired and genetic is a dishonest assertion. We as a society must first agree that the neuclear family is the best for a strong society, and condition our children accordingly, and with their naturally wired brains will support the core family institution, and become the next generation of procreating working parent to support our society and its core strength. Sure, if we want to take all our boy and girls, and teach them to be gay, and teach them social acceptance of that, we can produce allot of fags, but do we really want to intentionally do that, as a public policy, when gay relationships are inherently decadent and destructive to the family core, and hence, the destructive of the country? I say no. Do not teach five years that bill and bob are lovers or are getting married in school. Of course we dont. Let the kids get to at least 18 yo with the heards on straight, before you faggots start jaming your falic gay life style down their throats, and start attempting to conditioning them, and at least, give them a chance, at a normal healthy childhood, with good society support, in family life styles. Portect the kids from street buggery, parades, predators, and government recognition of gay marriages. Lets give the kids a childhood, and a diploma, before be pushed them out onto the street, and tell them, good luck, be careful, and "watch your back". On that basis, gay marriages should be baned, as well as street gay exhibitions, as well as decadent street parades, and any targeting or gay conditioning of our children. You gays go along with that, I wont send the brown shirts in to knock down your bedroom doors on sodomy charges, nor will I shut down your private gay bars, and we can respect each other, as adults, you can your limited gay rights, and we all can protect our children, and our society, for the over all good of the country, and be adult about it, and respect each other, for respecting each other's rights, in a reasonable balance. Deal?